Re: [OPE] FWD: Marx, Technology and Information

From: D. Göçmen <>
Date: Sat Mar 12 2011 - 01:23:55 EST

it is a very complicated issue the relationship between Marx and Nietzsche. I know many titles in other languages than English. However, G. Lukacs' "Destruction of Reason" is the starting point in any language in this matter.
Domenico Losurd's "Nietzsche: Der aristokratische Rebell (Nietzsche: The Aristocratic Rebel) may be of interest: I know that it is being translated into English but do not know whether it is already published.

Now, just one point to point out the difference between Marx and Nietzsche. Let me take the point your friend is making: Nietzsche says: The will to power. But for what, why, to do what? Therefore, as he does not point to any further perspective than to come into power it necessarily remains conservative. Marx (and indeed Hegel also) say: The will to power for emancipating humanity. In this perspective the power is instrumental for human emancipation. It is tought to be just a means to human liberty. In Nietzsche's formulation it is has two perspectives. On the one hand, it is instrumental too, bur to conserve that what already exists in actuality, that is, capitalism. On the other hand, however, it leads to glorification of power (and if necessary of violence).

The philosophical difference can be worked out by comparing Lukacs and Heidegger.

The political-theoretical difference between these two approaches can be seen and worked out by comparing Lenin and Carl Schmitt. (For German readers I compared Rosa Luxemburg and Carl Schmitt:

Heidegger and Schmitt were consistent with their teaching when they supported Hitler. Lukacs was consistent when he supported Stalin.

Best wishes,



-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Cockshott <>
To: ope <>
Sent: Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:51 pm
Subject: [OPE] FWD: Marx, Technology and Information

I wonder if I could tap collective wisdom to answer the query below.


--- original message ---

Thanks for the chat, it was very beneficial.

        I was wondering if you knew of any texts doing a comparative between

Nietzsche and Marx, partly as i'm trying to understand where 'will'

(will-to-power and other will-to-whatever) fits into social processes and labor;

in fact, also have Hegel in the back of my mind, and am wondering if the wills

(personal, communal, corporate, national, etc) are structured - what the

'dialectic' is, in what sense it is manifest in material processes, and in what

way it resides in the personal and 'collective' consciousness or unconscious.

Perhaps that requires another discussion at some point, but if any texts cross

your mind then i would be grateful for any references.

        One of the main guys working on information science (and retrieval) who

takes from Marx is Julian Warner (queen's univ. belfast) -

- i've got a copy of his book 'human information retrieval', he works on the

interface between information science and information theory; you might find him



On 11 Mar 2011, at 14:54, Paul Cockshott wrote:

> Ok at three then


> Paul


> --- original message ---

> From: "Sachi Arafat" <>

> Subject: Re: Marx, Technology and Information

> Date: 11th March 2011

> Time: 2:36:16 pm



> yes i assumed you'd be in anytime after two. I can come for 3 if that's ok?

> On 11 Mar 2011, at 14:18, Paul Cockshott wrote:


>> Are you in Sachi?

>> ________________________________________

>> From: Sachi Arafat

>> Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 1:05 PM

>> To: Paul Cockshott

>> Subject: Re: Marx, Technology and Information


>> ok

>> sachi


>> On 10 Mar 2011, at 12:58, Paul Cockshott wrote:


>>> Yes that is ok


>>> Paul


>>> --- original message ---

>>> From: "Sachi Arafat" <>

>>> Subject: RE: Marx, Technology and Information

>>> Date: 10th March 2011

>>> Time: 12:41:19 pm



>>> Ok, Are you around tomorrow after 2pm?

>>> S

>>> ________________________________________

>>> From: Paul Cockshott

>>> Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 08:45

>>> To: Sachi Arafat

>>> Subject: RE: Marx, Technology and Information


>>> Best come and talk about it because I need to know just what area you are

looking at.


>>> -----Original Message-----

>>> From: Sachi Arafat

>>> Sent: 09 March 2011 21:48

>>> To: Paul Cockshott

>>> Subject: Marx, Technology and Information


>>> Dear Paul,

>>> Do you know any works on this topic? I'm trying to understand how to think

about the relationship between the processes mediated by technology and those

which are not (or which are to a 'lesser' degree)

>>> Thanks

>>> Sachi



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