Re: [OPE] Venezuela is the most democratic country in Latin America

From: <>
Date: Fri Mar 06 2009 - 04:28:20 EST


and the same may be true about its coverage
of Venezuela

This exactly that what bourgeois press wants to achieve: to keep people back from positive support of the revolutionary changes in Venezuela, despite all criticism.
Paula, you say "may be" and seem to stay back. What is if its not true and you have not supported fundamental changes in Venezuela whose success is so existential for the further emancipation of humanity.
In the case of Venezuela there is no middle ground: you are either for or against Venezuelan revolution. I am for Chavez and for the revolutionary changes that are underway there. I am prepared to subscribe to the consequences. But what about the people who do not support in the name of so-called impartiality. Are they prepared to say I am guilty because I have not supported the revolution and it therefore failed. So the solution is to have and show the courage to be the part of the revolution in Venezuela. About scientific and critical approach we have nothing to learn from bourgeois press and so-called liberals who are nothing but conservatives and bourgeois demagogues.

Revolutıonary greetings,

-----Original Message-----
From: Paula <>
To: Outline on Political Economy mailing list <>
Sent: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 2:26
Subject: Re: [OPE] Venezuela is the most democratic country in Latin America

Jerry: "Paula, I guess you weren't
expecting anyone on the list to read that article or

what exactly was being


On the contrary; you asked me for non-bourgeois sources
that would support my skepticism, and as everyone here knows my skepticism
predates that story in the Washington Post. So I am presenting you with a
different source and a different story. What now? Should we
disbelieve one source because it's bourgeois but believe the other because
it's proletarian? Two legs bad and four legs good?


It's best to be skeptical regarding all claims,
those of the right and those of the left. But being skeptical does not mean
dismissing reports - rather it means taking them seriously enough to investigate
them further, if we can.


"I guess the fired workers and their unions
are also a "bourgeois source", right?"


Trade unions often have close
links with employers and/or with the state, sometimes of an
ideological, sometimes even of a formal nature. Consider, for
example, British unions' relations with the state through the Labor
Party. It wouldn't be unusual if a similar thing was happening with Venezuelan
unions - we would have to look into it.


for the claim that Chavez "represents" Venezuelan capital, you're going
to get quite an argument from
*capital itself*"


There's no such thing as 'capital itself'.
There are many capitals and they don't always have the same


"What _specific_ facti
on of the
bourgeoisie does Chavez represent (note the emphasis on
specific), including *who* are the principal figures in that faction and *what capital do they own and


State capital - a specific example is PDVSA,
which according to a source quoted by Wikipedia is the second largest company in
Latin America. Its current president is also the Minister for Energy and


""Actually, Paul Z, anti-Stalinists on the
Left were, for the most part, very  careful about _which_ sources they
accepted ...They_certainly_ didn't _rely_ on the bourgeois press for


We all rely on bourgeois sources for information, not only
the press but also books and the official statistics we quote in our
papers. What we should say is that we don't rely exclusively on these
sources, since we add in our own judgment, previously acquired
knowledge and experience, and perhaps (though not necessarily) alternative
sources of information. But the key point here is that the bourgeois press, in
spite of its bias, was correct about the USSR in at least some respects and on
at least some occasions, and the same may be true about its coverage
of Venezuela.




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Received on Fri Mar 6 04:35:50 2009

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