# Re: [OPE-L] Sraffa and the question of gravitation

From: ajit sinha (sinha_a99@YAHOO.COM)
Date: Tue May 01 2007 - 08:31:15 EDT

```--- Paul Cockshott <wpc@DCS.GLA.AC.UK> wrote:

> Ajit
> "If R happens to be not equal to the Srandard rate
> of
> profit then R1 = R2 = R3 = ... will not be true. It
> will be true only when R is equal to the Standard
> rate. The next step in the argument is that
> inequality
> between R1, R2, R3, ... can exist only if there is
> some outside constraint on the system. Thus when in
> your empirical work you find R's not to be equal,
> one
> explanation for it could be that there is always
> some
> outside interference in the market--for example,
> tariff, tax, subsidies, etc."
>
> Even on your own terms this does not seem to follow.
> Suppose that we find empirically that R is not equal
> to the standard rate, then from your argument the
> sectoral rates would not be equal.
>
> But more generally I would like to see you
> substantiate
> the argument that that inequalities in rates can
> only
> occur in the presence of outside constraints.
>
> To show this you would have to have some sort of
> dynamics
> in your system and show that this dynamics led to a
> uniform rate.
>
> Since a system with a non-uniform rate has a higher
> entropy, and is thus ** more probable ** than a
> system
> with a uniform rate, on very general statistical
> grounds,
> you would have to invent a set of dynamical laws
> that
> were entropy reducing. This is a non-trivial task,
> and
> I will believe it possible when I see you produce
> these
> dynamical laws.
>
>
> Paul Cockshott
_____________________________
Paul, but why our straight forward argument is not
convincing? That is that if the rate of profits are
not equal then as you increase wages from zero and try
to go to the maximum, you find that you cannot reach
the maximum because some rate of profits turn negative
before other reach zero, which only reveals existence
of some constraint on the system. This, in my view was
behind Sraffa's basic argument when he argues that all
prices must change when rate of profits change given
the total output constant. This is also behind the
discovery of the Standard commodity. The question was:
why should prices change when distribution changes?
The answer was: to redress the deficit or surpluses
that would emerge in different sectors; it was seen as
an internal necessity of the system. Only from this
ground, he could ask: so if I remove this cause from
some sector then that commodity will have no reason to
change given the cause. And so the Standard commodity
was discovered.  I, of course, would welcome some
suggestions of developing some internal dynamics of
the system--more in the line of quantum mechanics, I
guess--which would also prove the above proposition.
If you have any idea, please send it to me off list.
Currently we are working out the dynamics of the
gravitation mechnism given CRS to see if it, in any
case, works. Cheers, ajit sinha
>
> www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~wpc
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: OPE-L on behalf of ajit sinha
> Sent: Mon 4/30/2007 11:42 AM
> To: OPE-L@SUS.CSUCHICO.EDU
> Subject: Re: [OPE-L] Sraffa and the question of
> gravitation
>
> --- Paul Cockshott <wpc@DCS.GLA.AC.UK> wrote:
>
> > OK so you are implicityly assuming that R1=R2 =R3
> > this is not evident at this point of your
> > explanation
> >
> > Paul Cockshott
> __________________________
> I'm not implicitly assuming that. All I'm saying is
> that if you aggregate all the sectors of the economy
> and conceive it as one factory ( as Marx time and
> again tries to do), then the input side can be
> multiplied by (1+R) and equated to the output side,
> where R is the average profit for the whole economy.
> If R happens to be not equal to the Srandard rate of
> profit then R1 = R2 = R3 = ... will not be true. It
> will be true only when R is equal to the Standard
> rate. The next step in the argument is that
> inequality
> between R1, R2, R3, ... can exist only if there is
> some outside constraint on the system. Thus when in
> your empirical work you find R's not to be equal,
> one
> explanation for it could be that there is always
> some
> outside interference in the market--for example,
> tariff, tax, subsidies, etc. Furthermore, the real
> world, of course, is more complex and so any model
> designed to clarify a particular theoretical point
> should not be expected to "varify" the real world
> variables immediately. This, of course, was not part
> of the question but I'm just trying to clarify a
> point
> in advance. Cheers, ajit sinha
> >
> > www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~wpc
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: OPE-L on behalf of ajit sinha
> > Sent: Sun 4/29/2007 9:52 PM
> > To: OPE-L@SUS.CSUCHICO.EDU
> > Subject: Re: [OPE-L] Sraffa and the question of
> > gravitation
> >
> > --- Paul Cockshott <wpc@DCS.GLA.AC.UK> wrote:
> >
> > > Ajit
> > > I have put a paper entitled, 'Sraffa and the
> > > question
> > > of equilibrium' written by myself and a
> colleague
> > of
> > > mine on the SHE web site. This paper directly
> > deals
> > > with an issue that has been, one way or the
> other,
> > > one
> > > of the major concerns of the discussions on this
> > > list.
> > > I would appreciate all critical or friendly
> > > or a seminar on this paper. I hope the content
> of
> > > the
> > > paper is provocative enough to bring out some of
> > the
> > > people who have been mostly silent on this list.
> > >
> > > Paul C
> > >
> > > Looks an interesting paper but could you
> > > please justify the step in going from your
> > equation
> > > iv
> > > to equations v , vi and vii
> > >
> > > I am not sure what rules of inference you are
> > using?
> > >
> > > Paul Cockshott
> > >
> > > www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~wpc
> > _____________________________
> > Paul,
> >
> > If you add the three equations to get the equation
> > for
> > the system as a whole then you will get something
> > like:
> > [a(1+R1)+b(1+R2)+c(1+R3)]p1 + ... = X+Y+Z
> > The equation for the system as a whole could also
> be
> > written as:
> > (a+b+c)(1+R)p1 + ... = X+Y+Z
> > The condition of eqs. v-vii is simply saying that:
> > [a(1+R1)+b(1+R2)+c(1+R3)]p1 = (a+b+c)(1+R)p1 and
> > similarly for second column and the third column.
> > Remember, this condition will satisfy the equation
> > whatever the value of R happens to be. However, R1
> =
> > R2 = R3 = ... will be true only if R = the
> standard
> > rate of profit. Cheers, ajit sinha
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  The
> > > paper can be accessed from:
> > >
> > >
> >
>
http://www2.economics.unsw.edu.au/nps/servlet/portalservice?GI_ID=System.LoggedOutInheritableArea&maxWnd=_Heterodox_WorkingPapers> > >
> > >
> > > or from the SHE site:
> > >
> > > http://she.web.unsw.edu.au
> > >
> > > Cheers, ajit sinha
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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>
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