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Sorry, Paul, my fault for not seeing your point. I see what you were
getting at now, and I am not sure we disagree. I was using "capital"
in the sense simply of M-M', the growth of monetary value. Of
course, "capital" in the sense of wage labor involves more than just
M-M', although it does take that form too -- wage labor being one way
to get M' bigger than M (the only way if we take a system of
generalized commodity production as a whole).
Cheers, Paul B.
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> From: Paul Zarembka <firstname.lastname@example.org>
> Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 19:32:46
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> Subject: [OPE-L:3898] Re: Re: Re: Fred/Ajit discussion
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> Paul B.
> I think I need to reproduce what you initially wrote  which led to
> my question:
> PB>money, as both means of circulation and as capital, is historically
> PB>prior to wage labor as the dominant form of production.
> I asked about the connection of this statement of yours to capitalism and
> you answer below.
> Let me now ask another way: You refer to "money, as ... capital". Yet,
> money is not simply "capital" or you wouldn't have needed to bother
> writing, correct? So how is "capital" distinct from money? Is "capital"
> not the appropriation of surplus value from wage labor? (I guess you will
> If so, then "money...as capital" is not "prior to wage labor".
> Paul Z.
> Paul Zarembka, editor, RESEARCH IN POLITICAL ECONOMY at
> ******************** http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/PZarembka
> "ECUSERS" <ECBURKE@scifac.indstate.edu> said, on 09/28/00:
> >> Paul B.
> >> Does this mean that you agree with Engels that simple commodity production
> >> is both logically and historically prior to generalized commodity
> >> production? Does it also mean that, for you, capitalism can exist without
> >> wage labor?
> >> Paul Z.
> >Well, on the first question, if by simple commodity production is meant
> >the production of commodities in enterprises not using wage labor, it is
> >obviously historically prior. If you mean SCP as a dominant form of
> >production, I don't think that has ever happened. I am not sure what
> >logically prior means though in this context. On the second question,
> >my answer is no. But I don't see how the statement would follow from
> >mine. Obviously capital in the sense of M-M' existed prior to
> >capitalism (e.g., in moneylending).
> >Not sure what you're getting at, but I am interested in finding out.
> >Comradely, Paul Burkett.
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