RE: [OPE] Dialectics for the New Century

Date: Sun Apr 06 2008 - 14:21:46 EDT

> > Yes, but the issue is whether capitalism can be accurately described as> > being a 'logical system' using the definition you give above.> Well, that was not the original issue for me. 
Hi Dave Z:
Yes, I guess we've touched on a number of related topics in this 
thread.  The point I would make is that there is a logic to
what you call "logical systems" and a logic to systems that can not
be so described and that the formalism that is appropriate for the
former isn't necessarily capable of reconstructing the logic of the
> But the question you raise is interesting too. I'm skeptical that it is > possible to accurately describe capitalism as a logical system. It seems > to require a tremendous amount of compression.
Yes, it does.  "Compression" is a good word to use here because
it can be understood cross-paradigmatically.
 > Certain aspects could be modeled in this way, such as commodity exchange > and debt and credit creation which Paul C has opened up through his > research. 
I have no problem with the idea that "certain aspects" can be so modeled.
Whether a _particular_ aspect is one of those aspects which can be so 
modeled (or whether to much "information" is lost in the translation) is
a question that must be addressed within a particular context.
> On the other hand I am more optimistic that some very general laws of > capitalism can be modeled algorithmically as Ian Wright's work suggests. 
I wouldn't say as I was "optimistic" about this, but I am open-minded
about it.  I guess I have a  sceptical  ("show me") attitude about this 
>  There is _more than_ one logic within capitalism: e.g. there is a >  logic of capital and a logic of the working-class (Mike L).> I have a real hard time to conceive what, say, the 'logical system of > the working class' possibly could mean.
So do I - that's why I used the word 'logic', not 'logical system', 
If there is a logic of capital then I think there is also a logic of  
wage-labour.  The logic of the latter can not be reduced to the
logic of the former since that would be a one-sided conception.
The 'system' (note, I didn't say 'logical system') is capitalism and 
both capital and wage-labor have  contradictory and related 
dynamical logics within that system.
In solidarity, Jerry

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