Re: [OPE-L] Venezuela After the Referendum

From: Dogan Goecmen (dogangoecmen@AOL.COM)
Date: Fri Dec 07 2007 - 05:01:41 EST

Dear Paul Z,

many thanks for your reply. My replies are below.

Paul Z


I don't understand.  In fact, I think 'they' are not 'sure' because they
have not gotten a clear message from the government that this is REALLY
about them.  That is, the contradictory message of proposing decent
economic changes as constitutional issues, rather than legislative ones,
and tying these into a) eliminating Chavez's term limit, b) adding to his
powers administrative regional appointees, and c) setting up broader
marital law powers, leaves genuine reason to doubt the sincerity of the



 Paul, to be honest I am not in a position to judge on the reproaches you make above.

If you are right that Bolivarians were not sincere and they tried to present what they

really wanted as something else I would agree with you. Socialist policies must always
be true and open. Otherwise nothing would differ them from traditional bourgeois policies.

Paul Z


I suggest the responsibility for the problem belongs with the
government, not the lack of preparedness of workers for socialism.



I do not agree with this stement in general. You may be right in certain situations.

But there may be many other situations in which workers may not differentiate

between short and long term effects of policies suggested. Let me give an example.

It has also some bearings with the debates in Venezuela. Robert Owen when he started his

experiment in New Lanark one of the first measures he wanted to take was to convince

parents not to send their children to work but to school instead. Parents opposed to that

on the ground that they would not have enough  income to live on. They however insisted

on sending their children to work. At the beginning he tried to make changes in New Lanark

workers opposed his policy proposals because they did not trust him. On the basis of what
they have been experiencing for generations they were trying to see something else behind
his policy propasals because this have been their experience with the traditional capitalist
management policy. They could not believe that a manager can act in the interest of working
people. Robert Owen nontheless established there a kindergarden and school to educate
children. Only in the long run parents could see the real results of Owen's policies. But from
then on they were behind him. But to get to this stage he had to do a huge amount of work.
Only after he did not fire the people working in the mill there and did not reduce their wages
in the time of economic crisis (all other companies did) they started trusting him. Anyway it
is a complicated issue with the securing of the support of workers and masses.There is no
straight forward solution to that

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