From: Paul Cockshott (wpc@DCS.GLA.AC.UK)
Date: Wed Dec 05 2007 - 11:30:19 EST
I think you are overestimating support for the measures in the referendum. There was a decline in turnout as well as a decline in percentage votes since the presidential election. Support for the measures was well under 50% due to large levels of abstentions. I dont want to underestimate the great service that has historically been given to socialism by strong leaders like Stalin, Castro or Tito, but the problem with strong leaders is that they are mortal and corruptible. XXI century socialism has to develop non monarchical forms of state power, and I think direct democracy is the answer. If the constitution had proposed abolishing both the head of state and the parliament and replacing these by a people's assembly chosen by lot, then we would have been making real progress. Remember what Marx said about the combination of legislative and executive functions as being a key to communitarian democracy. It is notably that in his series of articles on this Wood has had to justify the abolition of term limits by looking at imperialist states like the UK and Germany, saying they have no term limits. Well that may be true, but it is hardly a recomendation from the standpoint of revolutionary democracy. Woods is using republican rather than democratic arguments. Paul Cockshott Dept of Computing Science University of Glasgow +44 141 330 3125 www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~wpc/reports/ -----Original Message----- From: OPE-L on behalf of Dogan Goecmen Sent: Wed 05/12/2007 2:27 PM To: OPE-L@SUS.CSUCHICO.EDU Subject: Re: [OPE-L] Venezuela After the Referendum "The change in property rights, though, requires a commitment and understanding on the part of the masses for such a change. History, I think, teaches us that revolutionary change can not be imposed (or, at least, sustained) from above by enlightened leaders." Hi Jerry, at least 50 percent of the people support a revolutionary change. How many percent is needed to make such changes in property rights. I think that the revolutionary process must go on with more radical political measures, exactly because people need to be empowered. Otherwise the revolutionary government may lose the popular support. Comradely, Dogan -----Ursprüngliche Mitteilung----- Von: GERALD LEVY <gerald_a_levy@MSN.COM> An: OPE-L@SUS.CSUCHICO.EDU Verschickt: Mi., 5. Dez. 2007, 15:16 Thema: Re: [OPE-L] Venezuela After the Referendum >>> I agree wit everything you say. But I feel that there is a deeper problem here that needs to be addressed. Once again Venezuela experience shows that the change of political power must be accompanied by the change of property rights. And this in turn requires some radical political measures. This cannot be done without centralising the political power. Justifiably people expect some improvements in the material conditions of their lives. If political measures are delayed in that respect understandably people will get impatient and will not show any interests in what so ever is happening in the country. That almost half of the people did not go to vote is a sign of tiredness. In South Africa political power has changed. Black people got their citizen rights. But the material conditions of their lives have hardly changed. Just because the South African government did not touched property rights. <<< Hi Dogan: The change in property rights, though, requires a commitment and understanding on the part of the masses for such a change. History, I think, teaches us that revolutionary change can not be imposed (or, at least, sustained) from above by enlightened leaders. As Mike L recently put it, "Without workers' control, there can be no socialism". A corollary might be: without mass participation and consensus, there can be no genuine revolution. This is a message that should have been learned in Venezuela when the masses, following the brief CIA-inspired coup, took to the streets and put Chavez back in the President's office. Chavez owes everything - including his life - to that mass support. The challenge, thus, for the Bolivarians is to assist in the empowerment of the masses - the ones who will in the last analysis be the agents of revolutionary change. In solidarity, Jerry = ________________________________________________________________________ Bei AOL gibt's jetzt kostenlos eMail für alle. Klicken Sie auf AOL.de um heraus zu finden, was es sonst noch kostenlos bei AOL gibt.
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