Re: [OPE-L] Lawrence Krader on objective and subjective value

From: Rakesh Bhandari (bhandari@BERKELEY.EDU)
Date: Tue Nov 13 2007 - 09:29:49 EST

>I am not sure I follow all of your 'editorializing'.

I hope you followed some...

>  I give an
>account of dialectical connection (a bit like Ollman's, I guess, but
>also sharing something in common with Levin and Lewontin - the
>original version of "The Dialectical Biologist" came out in 1985, I
>suppose the new one is revised) in Ch 4 of my book "Analytical and
>Dialectical Marxism",

So we have logical and historical dialectics but you seem to emphasize
ontological dialectics?


>>Oh just some editorializing...
>>>>I am just raising the hoary question of what role  Marx's specific
>>>>understanding of dialectic (logical and historical) and especially
>>>>contradiction play in or distinguish his theory.
>>>It seems that you are saying a very important one, no?
>>>Well, yes.
>>My hero Grossman downplayed influence of Hegel on Marx in 1943,
>>saying that Marx's understanding of the historical dialectic depended
>>on Condorcet, Sismondi, Jones. Though if I remember correctly there
>>may be a favorable and hidden footnote on the importance of Hegel's
>>logic for Marx's categorial analysis. And there is that fabulous,
>>key, perhaps though not coherent quote in which Marx says that JS
>>Mill, comfortable with logical contradictions, is at bay with real
>>dialectical contradiction whose source is Hegel.
>>And certainly when Grossman in 1941 insists that Marx did not
>>complete but actually revolutionized Ricardo's value theory, he seems
>>to suggest (with nowhere the clarity of Ilyenkov who himself is vague
>>often enough) the importance of Marx's ability to grasp the unity of
>>opposites--in the commodity itself and as externalized in the value
>>form, in the accumulation process as a unity of technical and value
>>processes, in the opposite use value and unit value effects of rising
>>To put it roughly would you say your sense of dialectical logic is
>>close to Levins and Lewontin's (just ordered their new book from
>>Monthly Review)?
>>Lukacs would of course put emphasis inter alia on Marx's ability to
>>theorize capitalism as a totality, in terms of  carefully specified
>>connections or what (according to Chris Arthur) Ollman would call
>>inner-action among parts.
>>Marx himself put great emphasis on the aesthetic wholeness of
>>Capital, as I have underlined in discussion with Fred. I think he
>>means here not only the exhaustive specification of the parts of the
>>totality (a pure and idealized bourgeois mode of production) and
>>their interconnections as spelled out in a layered way but the
>>dramatic history he gave of this totality (the drama of its origins,
>>rise and fall--such a drama contrasted here to episodic histories of
>>parts, which Foucault would do much to resurrect the respectability
>>The drama however is a fictional one. Society is not the capitalist
>>totality, and the parts specified were either not necessary
>>(commodity money) or  exhaustive (missing book on the state?market in
>>govt debt? limited liability corporation?).
>>And Marx may or may have abstracted from the background of the world
>>market. I don't think so (as I, along with Kenneth Lapides, do think
>>Marx more or less finished the book he intended to write after he
>>dumped the six book plan), but most people (Michael Heinrich
>>prominently) on this list do think Marx did abstract away from the
>>world market.
>>But one can say the method of analyzing the totality remains
>>defensible? Of course one could say that and say that there is
>>nothing specifically Marxist about such a method.
>>But the most important point: Rick Kuhn won the Deutscher prize for
>>his marvelous book on Grossman.
>Associate Professor Ian Hunt,
>Dept  of Philosophy, School of Humanities,
>Director, Centre for Applied Philosophy,
>Flinders University of SA,
>Humanities Building,
>Bedford Park, SA, 5042,
>Ph: (08) 8201 2054 Fax: (08) 8201 2784

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