Re: [OPE-L] Incoherence of the TSSI - consensus?

Date: Wed Oct 24 2007 - 16:30:35 EDT

Message was rejected by listserv because of formatting.  Have slightly
altered. / In solidarity, Jerry

---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: Re: [OPE-L] Incoherence of the TSSI - consensus?
From:    "Anders Ekeland" <>
Date:    Wed, October 24, 2007 4:20 pm

Hi Jerry,

At 15:23 24.10.2007, you wrote:

>I just quickly re-searched the archives. Without giving a post-by-post
>chronological history of the sequence, I think it shows the following:
>1. The recent discussion on the list of the TSSI began (harmlessly enough)
>with a post on August 18 by Ian W.

My point is that while Ian, Jurriaan and others discussed the
substance in August - you focused on the  phrase "defamation den" -
originally written by Kliman in a private email, so you triggered
this style oriented type of discussion.

The second time around to get an "near consensus" condemnation
of  the a) logic b) presentation of other views c) clarity of own
concepts of Kliman and Freeman.

My point was and is not that there is unreasonable to be very
critical to the polemical style of Kliman, but that one should not
fight that war *here*, on OPE-L. You were not attacked here. Just
ignore the counter-productive polemical style.

>3. Although it never really completely went away afterwards, there was
>another surge of postings beginning on October 19 with a short post I
>wrote calling attention of listmembers to the _C&C_ note by Simon and
>Roberto V.

"calling attention of list members" is in my view a rather
euphemistical was to describe that you asked the list if there was
not consensus on the "understated" claim that a,b and c "left
something to be desired".

>I certainly did not trigger the discussion which commenced in August -
>although  I (as you) participated in it.

Not the substantial discussion - but the style-oriented one.

>PS: I don't recall posting anything on this list recently (or ever) about
>a "defamation den".  What post of mine are you thinking of?

This one:
------------- start of post ------------------
Date:         Wed, 22 Aug 2007 15:56:22 -0400
Subject: Re: [OPE-L] Reclaiming Marx's "Capital": book launch talks,
reviews, media coverage

Please feel to share this message with the members of Levy's
Defamation Den.


"Levy's Defamation Den", of course, is intended to mean this list,
what Andrew called elsewhere "OPE-HELL".  Well, that's Andrew for

We are all  evidently in his reckoning part of the Global
Conspiracy Against the TSSI, which is also an International
Anti-Copernican Conspiracy Against Marx's Marxism, and Andrew Kliman in
particular.  In case you didn't all understand our secret mission - it is
to perpetuate the myth of Marx's internal inconsistencies and in so doing
prevent his perspectives from being taken seriously. Welcome to the club.

In solidarity, Jerry
--------------------- end of post-----------------------

Just to repeat, I can clearly see that you have your reasons for not
beeing particularly enthusiastic about Kliman&Freemn. My point is
that it is not wise - not productive - to drag that discussion of
style into OPE-L. To discuss style is perfectly valid - and in my
opinion very important politically, but in the right time and place -
on the Internet and especially face to face at conferences.

Let's fade out this discussion and return to the substancial questions.


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