Re: [OPE-L] basics vs. non-basics

From: Paul Cockshott (wpc@DCS.GLA.AC.UK)
Date: Tue Sep 27 2005 - 04:02:44 EDT

Surely for this you need to first express things
in material terms.
Let us take a 2 industry example with negative net product
Assume we have units in tons of material and person years

INPUTS                  OUTPUTS
Corn    Iron     Labour
100     10       20       90
10      10       5        20
110     20       25

In this case we have a negative net output of corn of -20
and no net output of iron. This would imply that 25 
person years were embodied in
-20 tons of , so the net new value added per ton of
corn must be -1.25 person years per ton
so at very least value must be negative

Solving the full value equations
90corn == 100corn + 10iron + 20,
 20iron == 10corn + 10iron + 5
iron -> -(3/4), corn -> -(5/4)

This implies that with a negative net product in the
basic sector values in that sector must be negative.
This merely expresses the fact that under these
circumstances labour is socially unnecessary,
and is indeed deleterious.

-----Original Message-----
From: OPE-L [mailto:OPE-L@SUS.CSUCHICO.EDU] On Behalf Of Philip Dunn
Sent: 22 September 2005 11:04
Subject: Re: [OPE-L] basics vs. non-basics

Quoting Gerald_A_Levy@MSN.COM:

> Hi Phil:
> > In the example I gave no value was destroyed -- aggregate value
> > was positive.
> You're example was a bit vague on details.  You previously wrote:
> > Suppose we have an all agricultural economy and there are bad
> > so that the physical net product is all negative.
> The following numerical example is a special case of your example.
> Let's stay at the aggregate level.    If I recall correctly, you like
> numerical examples.   OK ...
> Previously -- in the last harvest before the 'bad harvest' -- the
value of
> the total product was $150  where C=50, V=50 & S=50.
> Assume that the entire S is then productively consumed.  So,  'before
> harvest'  the total capital invested equals $150 -- $75 V and $75 C.
> Assume further for now that C consists entirely of constant
> capital (but see 'PS' below).
> Now assume -- as a result of bad harvests -- that the value of the
> product now equals $50.   In this case, there is a decline in the
> of the total product from $150 to $50.
> Hasn't  a value equivalent to $100 been destroyed in this case?
> In solidarity, Jerry

Hi Jerry

Comparisons of sums of money paid at different times are only valid if
the value
of money has not changed.

Suppose aggregate labour is 25 hours. Then aggregate value added is 25
Let tha value if money initially be 1. Then C is 75 hours.  Let the
value of
money at the end be v hours/$. The value of revenue, C', is 50v hours.

C' - C = 50v - 75 = 25 

v=2 hours/$, c' = 100 hours

Philip Dunn

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