Re: (OPE-L) dreams and nightmares

From: Paul Bullock (paulbullock@EBMS-LTD.CO.UK)
Date: Sat May 17 2003 - 15:08:37 EDT


Concerning such 'political' discussions. Firstly ALL the theory discussed on
this site has political implications as far as I am concerned. Secondly, I
am quite astonished that given the appalling crimes committed by the rich
and powerful to maintain their positions in the world, and the extremely
aggressive and violent positions being carried forward  against  the
democratic rights of millions by these same interest, that  the recent
limited reapplication of the death penalty in Cuba has seized the main
attention of  some members of the list. What sense of proportion do we see
in these remarks? If Nicky wishes to appeal to our better instincts why
doesn't she choose to condemn the fact of  Koestler's rape of Mrs Foot,
rather than his fiction? Why have the protests against the death penalty not
been seen before on this site by the same correspondents, when applied
against  the oppressed in the USA?

If a discussion of imperialist violence and  counteractions by  oppressed
countries has to be discussed, it must  be done in public. This was the
classic way to identify the real political  positions of  priests and other
ideologists who concealed self interest and reaction in moral lamentation
and 'heavenly' appeals. It is not suprising that Castro is quoted on this
site recently as attacking certain Marxists.

Paul Bullock

----- Original Message -----
From: "Riccardo Bellofiore" <riccardo.bellofiore@UNIBG.IT>
Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2003 1:33 PM
Subject: Re: (OPE-L) dreams and nightmares

> I think Chris is right on openness. May I ask Jerry if it is possible
> to open for these kind of discussions a parallel closed site?
> r
> At 13:02 +0100 17-05-2003, Christopher Arthur wrote:
> >And I say I agree with Riccardo. (And also Fred)
> >But this illustrates also why I was, and remain, opposed  to a public
> >archive. I would like to hear a discussion and particpate but I do not
> >to word things as carefully as I would in a letter to the press.
> >Chris A
> >
> >>At 11:22 -0600 16-05-2003, Hans Ehrbar wrote:
> >>>In the times of imperialist attack on Cuba I consider it the
> >>>duty of every progressive either to support Cuba or, if you
> >>>feel you cannot do this, to stay silent, because everything
> >>>critical you say at this moment will be used as further
> >>>pretext for the attacks on Cuba.  The actions by the Cubans
> >>>which you object to were undertaken as a defense against US
> >>>attacks.  We have to try to stop the imperialists, instead
> >>>of second-guessing the actions Cuba is undertaking to defend
> >>>itself.  This seems so obvious to me that I am embarrassed
> >>>to send it to this list.  I am only saying it for the record
> >>>so that people perusing the archives will not get a false
> >>>impression.
> >>>
> >>>Hans.
> >>
> >>
> >>hans, four (no, five) things:
> >>
> >>(i) we decided to 'open' the list, so we decided to make debates
> >>openly. if we don't want that, we should close the list. or Jerry
> >>should open some parallel, closed site to discuss openly among
> >>comrades this kind of stuff.
> >>
> >>(ii) 'to stay silent'? I don't know why, but I have heard this kind
> >>of things many many times. I don't like the expression: neither the
> >>form nor the substance.
> >>
> >>(iii) I strongly support Cuba against US attacks. I repeat: strongly.
> >>And I condemn any 'pretext' to attack Cuba. But I do not justify the
> >>actions undertaken by Cuba, as you do. By the way, they are giving
> >>USA more 'pretexts'. There is a dissent among us on this. You cannot
> >>take your opinion as granted. I respect it, but mine is very
> >>different.
> >>
> >>(iv) in my mind (and unfortunately I can think only with my mind, and
> >>speak accordingly) what I said in prior mail is exactly the most
> >>friendly approach to Cuba, it' s the only way I see to support Cuba:
> >>avoid (or insist in) serious and dramatic errors. there is no
> >>second-guessing. those actions are patently wrong, are against what
> >>communism (at least, libertarian communism) is and should be, as end
> >>and as means.
> >>
> >>(v) should I say that those who do not understand this are really
> >>working against Cuba, and should then stay silent? it's not my
> >>attitude, frankly. I am interested in listening their opinions and
> >>arguments.
> >>
> >>r
> >>
> >
> >17 Bristol Road, Brighton, BN2 1AP, England
> --
> Riccardo Bellofiore
> Dipartimento di Scienze Economiche
> "Hyman P. Minsky"
> Via dei Caniana 2
> I-24127 Bergamo, Italy
> e-mail:
> direct    +39-035-2052545
> secretary +39-035 2052501
> fax:      +39 035 2052549
> homepage:
> Al signor K chiesero cosa stesse facendo.
> Il signor K rispose: "Sto lavorando duro
> per preparare il mio prossimo errore"
> What are you working on, Herr K was asked.
> Herr K replied: "I am working hard,
> I am carefully preparing my next error"
> Bertolt Brecht

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