In a previous message, I said that in "slave-capitalist" societies the production of slaves is a commodity-producing process. Jerry  replies: >if the (re)production of slaves is a commodity-producing process, is it also productive of surplus value? If so, this would mean that the procreation and raising of children as slaves would itself be productive of surplus value. This would mean that the act of procreation and reproduction by and of slaves -- including the rape of slaves by slaveowners where pregnancies and children result [!!!] -- would itself be a productive act [!] in the sense that it would be productive of surplus value. If that were the case, then it would be possible to then say that slave_owners_, through the act of rape, contribute directly to the production of surplus value and are thereby (partially) productive laborers! I would not go this far. I am not aware of the existence of "slave nurseries" in the New World, or anywhere else, in which case the industrial-scale production of slaves (through systematic rape or by other means) for profit could be productive of surplus value. I don't think that this type of production is possible for several reasons, not least resistance by the slaves themselves. My point is much simpler: if there are slave markets, where ownership over people's bodies is traded regularly, then people become commodities, and their biological reproduction produces commodities (slave children) who may be sold, even separately from their parents. This is all I meant to say, not more. More generally, I do *not* think that the production of commodities is automatically and necessarily a *capitalist* production process. Value may be produced (e.g., by independent artisans) without surplus value being produced simultaneously. I think the case of slave-production is closer to this case than to a capitalist production process. Alfredo.
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