[OPE-L:6882] value-form

From: Geert Reuten (reuten@fee.uva.nl)
Date: Wed Apr 03 2002 - 15:24:26 EST

Re Andy 6867.
In addition to Jerry, Chris, Nicky:
Speaking for myself of course,

Value is not money (but money is value).
Nevertheless all value-forms (commodity-f, money-f, capital-f, profit-f) 
are expressed without exception in monetary terms. Thus the value of x  = 
$z. Even if Marx would not be a value-form theoretician, this is definitely 
his opinion too. (See e.g. Capital I, Penguin,  p. 152 or 255.)

I would add (Marx is not consistent in this) that the dimension of value is 
always monetary.

Another issue is that it is only in exchange that value actually takes the 
form of money. Outside exchange we only have "ideal value".
Thus capital in production, or capital in commodity form is an "ideal 
value".  (The thrust of this is also Marx. On top he also says it.)

Labour in capitalist process is also ideal value.
Also for Marx (even if he, once having said it, does not repeat the "ideal").

The conceptual problem arises when you abstract from fixed constant capital 
(as Marx does in Vol I). Then this "ideal value of labour in process" can 
both be expressed in "ideal monetary terms" and in terms of "abstract 
time". But after the profit-form has been introduced (Marx, Cap III, Pt 1-2),
you cannot keep to the abstract time "dimension". (Even if concrete time 
counts in each concrete production process.)
Thus in any rather concrete analysis in which fixed capital and the 
profit-form have been taken into account, we cannot use the abstract time 
dimension any more (the abstract time dimension was a conceptual step, not 
a definition).


[BTW I check mail not more than once a week, sorry.]

At 4/3/02Wednesday, nicola taylor wrote:
>Hello Andy [OPE-L:6867] and Jerry [OPE-L:6868], sorry in advance for brevity.
>Andy asks:
> >If value *is* money, then what
> >is the value-*form*?
>1. 'Value-form' is an abstract universal concept for the 'mode of
>association' posited by capitalism.  Value-form is that which enables the
>existence of production based on the 'dissociation' of production and
>consumption and the 'dissociation' of labour and means of production.  A
>wage contract (for example) is a concrete determination of the value-form.
>2. 'Value' is an abstract universal concept for social 'forms' specific to
>capitalism.  Commodities are values (in commodity form).  Money is value
>(in money form).  Ultimately, though, value is capital because success
>(valorisation) in a capitalist (monetary) economy is measured only by way
>of a comparison of capital with itself at different points in time.
>And what is good, Phaedrus,
>And what is not good -
>Need we ask anyone to tell us these things?
>Nicola Taylor
>Faculty of Economics
>Murdoch University
>South Street
>W.A. 6150
>Tel. 61 8 9385 1130
>email: n.taylor@stu.murdoch.edu.au

Dr Geert Reuten
Faculty of Economics (AE)
University of Amsterdam
Roetersstraat 11
1018 WB Amsterdam
Valeriusstraat 26
1071 MJ Amsterdam

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