[OPE-L:5874] Re: Re: Re: Reply to fred

From: howard engelskirchen (lhengels@igc.org)
Date: Mon Jul 02 2001 - 01:31:34 EDT

Paul --

I think value form's approach in identifying economic forms first and
explaining private property on that basis is correct.  As I understand it,
exchange value is predicated upon the autonomy of independent producers who
produce values useless to them for others.  This is not a relationship of
property, at least in any legal sense, but a relationship concerning the
distribution of agents of production to the means of production.  Property
relations as legal relations are relations of force and consciousness
derivative of that.  So if we want to speak of commodity ownership we would
speak of onwership of value and reach the reverse of your proposition,
namely:  private property is predicated upon the value form of labor.
Capital is more complicated because it is intrinsically a relationship
involving the subordination of will, nonetheless we can start with the
distribution of agents in the sense of the separation of direct producers
from the means of production.  And this of course is immediately a class


At 11:36 AM 7/1/01 +0100, you wrote:
>          meaning 'of no particular concrete/ or technical skill'...  human
>labour in general... although there is an avoidance of the notion of some 
>essential physical/mental activity.. since this would move into an obvious 
>a-historical position.       private property. Now  we are no longer
>dealing with a directly   - as I stressed some time ago - the link in an
>historically  new   social process. Private property exchanges  with
>private property, abstracted from the particular existence of man as a 
>directly social being. Mankinds directly social being is of no immediate 
>interest to capital. The quality of labour socially, becomes 'abstract'
>when  direct exchanges are broken down through the spontaneous development
>of money.  It becomes systematically      over a period of time.
>Understanding it after industrial capitalism  had developed simply enabled
>us correctly to understand the history leading up  to it accurately.    
>labour . Money is the gateway by which private property is able  to act for
>its own society, it blesses the private offering with the stamp of  social
>validation. It reveals the abstract, social, nature of the labour 
>performed privately.          between private property, and so class
>society based on  labour power as a commodity, and not one sidedly
>reiterate the fact of exchange  as such.   Fraternally   Paul B.  

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