[OPE-L:5730] Re: Response to Fred - 1

From: charlie (charles1848@value.net)
Date: Fri Jun 01 2001 - 11:38:40 EDT

A friend of mine used to do a comedy routine. He played a self-
employed painter. First he would turn one way and argue that he
deserved a raise from himself. Then he would turn the other way
and argue that he was running a business, things were tough now,
and he couldn't give himself a raise. He would begin in
reasonable and plaintive tones, then escalate the confrontation
with himself. He would go back and forth until he went on strike
against himself but also used management personnel (himself) to
scab on himself. You had to see him try to stop himself from
crossing his picket line.

I thought he was distinguishing value from surplus value. I
thought he was distinguishing three classes. I thought he was
showing that value is created prior to its realization and its
division into class revenues, but now I see that he must have
been doing VF theory -- although like Moliere's bourgeois
gentleman, without knowing it.

Charles Andrews
Web site for my book From Capitalism to Equality is at

nicola taylor wrote:
> Within capitalism, the labour process doubles into technical (use-value
> producing) and valorisation (value producing) processes.  The valorisation
> process dominates the technical process because, prior to production, the
> owner of means of production engages in pre-commensuration of the value of
> the intended product (in money terms) as against the value of inputs (in
> money terms).  Presumably self-employed producers pay themselves wages, and
> engage in the same process of precommensuration??  Form-determination
> refers to this domination of value-form over it's content, with the
> contradiction that form requires content for it's existence, and some
> element of the technical process (labour) must be coercively brought under
> the value form (wages).  Presumably self-employed producers are also
> brought under the value-form, to the extent that must sell their products
> on the market for money, must pay themselves wages, and must work hours
> sufficient to compete with other producers??

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