# [OPE-L:5243] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: RE: RE: Re: [Mike W] Re: use-value as quantitative

From: Steve Keen (s.keen@uws.edu.au)
Date: Fri Mar 23 2001 - 17:10:51 EST

```OK; does this then clarify what I said:

"I argue that the use-value is quantitative in the M--C--M+ circuit, and
measured in value units, and the two magnitudes are incommensurable with
each other in the sense Marx meant, which was that THE AMOUNT OF VALUE in
one plays no role in determining THE AMOUNT OF VALUE in the other."

Of course both have to have value to be compared Jerry, just like two
people have to have height to be able to say one is tall and the other
short. But the property of both having height of course doesn't determine
who is tall or short.

Steve
At 07:35 AM 3/22/01 -0500, you wrote:
>Re Steve K's [5324]:
>
> > Here we go with "read my lips again".
> > Jerry, what I said was "one plays no role in determining the other": i.e.,
> > that for strict commodities, the use-value of the commodity plays no role
> > in determining its EXCHANGE value. You instead read me as saying that
> > use-value plays no role in determining VALUE. I
>did not say that!
>
>words. I will capitalize your words below so
>that you don't miss it.
>
> > > > I argue that use-value is quantitative in the M--C--M+ circuit, and
> > > > MEASURED IN VALUE UNITS, and the two magnitudes are incommensurable
>with
> > > > each other in the sense Marx meant, which was that one plays no role
>in
> > > > determining the other *for strict commodities*.
>
>Moreover, lets's follow *exactly* what you say
>above: if it is true that uv and ev are both
>"measured in value units", then it can not
>also follow that uv and ev play no role in
>determining each other for 'strict commodities'.
>I.e. if there is no uv, then there can be no
>value and HENCE no ev for the 'commodity'.
>Thus, whether a commodity contains uv
>is a necessary precondition for the the product
>to actually have value *and ev* and thereby
>actually be a commodity. And that follows
>necessarily -- word for word -- from what you
>wrote above.
>
>In solidarity, Jerry

Dr. Steve Keen
Senior Lecturer
Economics & Finance
Campbelltown, Building 11 Room 30,
School of Economics and Finance
UNIVERSITY WESTERN SYDNEY
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