[OPE-L:4782] Re: Re: state ownership

From: paul bullock (paulbullock@ebms-ltd.in2home.co.uk)
Date: Thu Jan 18 2001 - 11:59:17 EST

Hi Jerry and Paul,

Yes I think the term 'collective ownership' might better be treated as
acceptable. Then the question of the actual social form... socialist...
communist.... can then be decided by the working classes in the process of
getting rid of the wretched system presently in place.

With regard to the USSR it is ever necessary to stress that since 1917 it
never ceased being attacked by imperialism in every way... and that the key
failure was that of  the working classes in the imperialist states to fight
these attacks effectively. It is a wonder to me that the horrific nature of
these unrestrained assaults (the loss of life due to western intervention
after the WW1 alone was greater than that during WW1 -- the Whites
exterminated one third of the Finnish working class for  example) that the
USSR lasted so long!

Lets get some perspective on Imperialism.


Paul Bullock

-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Levy <jerry_levy@usa.net>
To: ope-l@galaxy.csuchico.edu <ope-l@galaxy.csuchico.edu>
Date: 18 January 2001 14:05
Subject: [OPE-L:4781] Re: state ownership

>In [OPE-L:4780] Paul C wrote:
>> I am infavour of
>> state ownership of the means of production.
>OK, I'll bite:
>Several questions come to mind (generally in reverse order of
>importance, imo):
>1) Is this position, which you identify as the "orthodox" communist
>the same as that held by Marx?
>2) Does the distinction between state ownership and control vs.
>workers' ownership and control have any special significance from
>your perspective?
>3) When you assert state ownership, who controls the state? The
>"Party"? The working class? The "people"?
>4) Has the failure of "socialism" (NB: quotation marks)in various countries
>(e,g, the former USSR) been at all connected to the issues suggested in #2
>In solidarity, Jerry
>Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1

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